Questions on Strategy

    Production from factories is added to the warehouse one factory at a time.
    All steel is produced before engines are produced.
    In you example say you are producing your steel in factories in batches of 20.


    You will be producing QL50 steel from QL0 iron ore.
    You start with 941 QL0 steel for 0QL*units in the warehouse.
    You then add 20 units of QL50 steel to the warehouse. 20*50=1000QL*units were added.
    You now have 941+20=961 units of steel and 1000QL*units of quality.
    The mixed quality is now int(1000/961)=1QL.
    You have 961 units of QL1 steel.


    Warehouse has 961*QL1 = 961 QL*units of steel quality.
    The next factory will dump 20 more units of QL50 steel adding 1000 QL*units of steel quality.
    Total steel quality units are 1961 for 981 units.
    The mixed quality is now int(1961/981)=1 (NOT 2!)


    The process is repeated and the rounded down quality level stays at 1.


    You now produce engines.
    Its quality level is int((QL1 steel + QL50 engines)/2) = 24.
    All engines produced are QL 24.


    Note: that if you do not buy any more steel, you will start the next update with 493 steel of QL1.
    You should end up with much higher QL steel. Maybe over QL20.


    Walter

    Zitat

    Original von Jik


    Scorekeeping is mystery for English speakers, but help Overall-highscore by balance Best-Vendor and Best-Manufacturer. Make profit from manufacture finished goods and sell in own shops. Improve Best-Vendor by buy finished goods in market and resell in own shops, usually at loss. Just do one each of shops for which you not manufacture goods, so not run through inventory too fast. Check Best-Vendor score (not rank) every tick and add shops until start to go up. Textile and Grocery are best shops to start with, since finished goods plentiful in market. (If manufacture a lot, may have to do more than one of some shops. Jik used to have 10-20 side shops to offset car manufacture, but this round able to buy cars in market to support Best-Vendor.)


    It is a mistery for german speakers, too, because the manual is written in such a cryptic way.


    The 1,5-thing is right. It is no secret any more. Does the chat not work on your PC? Congratulations for such a good highscore place without any chat. Do you know that you are a living legend among the IT-community? =)


    I have learned from you to sell things in shop at loss. You wrote about that years ago. Without you, I had never had the idea that one has to pay for vendor points. Thank you very much for this.


    *edit* *chance a wrong key met by my fingers*

    Zitat

    I have learned from you to sell things in shop at loss. You wrote about that years ago. Without you, I had never had the idea that one has to pay for vendor points.


    Now that is something that I would very much like to hear about. I can understand the general idea behind it, but I would be most appreciative if one of you might elucidate on the subject. :)

    Sorry for late response. Jik computer break and new (Vista) computer not work with old dialup internet service provider.


    This is formula Jik use for max shop price:


    1.5N * ( 1 + 0.00658Q )


    where N is SUDE normal price and Q is QL.


    This only work while product is fresh (SUDE supply not much over 100%). When product get stale (SUDE supply way over 100%), price come down fast. While product fresh, shop sell max quantity in every season, but when stale, seasonality have effect.


    ========================================


    Jik email IT team and they authorize post formula:


    "it is not forbidden.
    Is your formula correctly, you can post it in the forum.
    The formula was written in the gamechat."

    Yes, these two are not so far apart, really. Especially since some of us have gotten into the habit of knocking a few points off the formula anyway, even in some cases where supply does not obviously exceed demand. Seems to help that one extra point of sales.


    Anyhow a really big thanks to Jik and Quaser for posting here. I'd been feeling more than a bit lonesome before, and Kahla too, I think. :)


    As for me, I've just moved house and, living in an "emerging country" like I do (polite phrase, that), I lost my landline altogether for a whole week. A close thing since I was losing 5 mil per wu when I came back online (about 5K steel in excess of warehouse limit, hardly any cafe or grocery sales, 25 factories without resources...). Horrible!


    I'm now busy investigating the extra shops Jik recommended--starting with textiles since I already have a grocery shop. It seemed at first very strange to me: buying products for more than you can sell them at? But I think it works out like this (for Kahla's benefit):


    1. We are rewarded for manufacturing goods in our own factories and selling them in our own shops (manufacturer score).


    2, We are rewarded for buying completed products from other players and selling them in our shops (vendor score).


    3. We are not rewarded for selling completed products to other players! At least not directly.


    4. This means that under normal circumstances nobody would want to place finished goods on market (unless in emergencies caused by overproduction)


    5. One way for players themselves to encourage this is through accepting goods on the market that are priced higher than the selling price. This is especially so in the case of products that take a lot of land to produce.


    6. This can be done so long as the prices are not so excessive that the resulting fall in ROI is not offset by the boost in vendor points.


    7. Is this how it works? If so it's a little strange but not totally implausible. Each player is then acting a little like countries do when they subsidise key sectors of the economy. Think of agriculture in the EU, for example.


    Comments? =)

    Zitat

    Originally posted by John Smythe
    7. Is this how it works? If so it's a little strange but not totally implausible.


    Yeah, that's it. Once Vendor and Manufacturing both positive, you get good Overall score. To compete with top players, must also improve Eventmanager by donations and/or contracts on Newspaper page. Score method mystery to Jik, though.

    To point 1: We also get manufacturer points for selling complete products on the market. And I think that we get points for selling them directly to other players, too. But the last thing will not influence the market prices.


    Jik, I think the contracts in the newspaper do not have influence on the event score. Only the events.

    Well, Morgie and Jik, what can I say? I believe the word is...


    Woot! :D


    Definitely a much better round for me. Thank you! Very hard work though, maintaining all those shops. Not sure if I can keep it up and my falling ROI worries me too. This means I'll gradually again slide behind those more experienced in exploiting their higher quality levels.


    Still it was fun to appear on a front page, even if only for a few days. :)

    Yeah, place 8 in the overall highscore actually. Congratulations. =)


    ROI and quality level are not soooo important. At the very beginning, quality is helpful because you can start with more money. But later when you rise your vendor points your own quality in low-level-products is not very important because you buy them instead of making them. =)


    And money is there to spend it not to have it. :D

    Well, Jik and you implied I must do more trading so I...overdid it perhaps? Take a look at the Best Vendor score today! :] But of course this may simply imply frantic activity more than brains. ;) I've had much more time the past few weeks, since that move I mentioned. Closer to work-from-home and a shorter commute when I do need to.


    I've still managed to make some pretty bad mistakes and, like I predicted, company size and ROI simply can't keep up with the best. What impresses me is how Jik keeps it all in balance. Best vendor and best manufacturer are balanced and ROI is excellent. That is the key, it seems.


    Right now, I'm buying everything I can, making what I can't buy (and which still gives a reasonable return) and, finally, ignoring what gives poor return and which I cannot even buy. But I'm going to be hit hard when the steel price rockets up in the closing stages...

    Zitat

    Originally posted by John Smythe
    Well, Jik and you implied I must do more trading so I...overdid it perhaps?


    During initial buildup, not even need extra shops. Just sell occasional batch of goods from market in shops for your own goods. Jik avoid make own lumber. Since lumber can be sold in shops, suspect that when use as raw material, Vendor score is hurt. Not sure, though.


    By level 34 (cars), need many shops to offset big Manufacturing output. Last round, though, Jik bought so many cars in market that made mostly motorcycle and luxury cars, and only had 3 electronics shops (make colour TV and resell other stuff), and later also grocery and household shop.

    What is going on with peanuts? Unless I'm mistaken, the best product one can make is peanut butter and yet the peanut selling-price on the market as of tonight is almost looking like that for steel. :( Is there something I'm missing?


    ?(

    Ah yes, peanuts butter. It is good profit. Some people have high ql milk and then have ql on peanut butter. They could sell for more even they buy ql 0 peanuts. That is why... and because they want to keep selling wine, fruit juices, whisky etc, but don't have space for the farms. They need to maintain the sw.

    D,D&D SP 8)
    Both normal round & speedround


    "When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it."
    --Bernard Bailey

    Doubtless you are right. I was just startled at how high it had got and thought maybe I'd overlooked another "high end" product. So that means that someone out there, if they are actually buying those peanuts, must have some really high quality butter output. Much too rich for me, I'm afraid.


    In fact my whole economy has gone wobbly now. I'd been trying to play little games with buying too many inputs on the cheap. Worked for a while, but less and less now. Anyone got cans for me at 4950? Hmm, I thought not. ;) Time to...what's the word? Consolidate.

    Jik buy low QL lumber, but still sell crank more than 29k, because everything else QL 100. Fabrics too expensive for new player, but QL guys can make summer clothes and furry pets at profit. Every round, you improve QL. Start with level 0 finished goods of start industry, then steel (and lumber, if make), then iron ore, then ice box, crank, fridge, ...